The scenario. You get a bit keen on wine, and join some mailing lists of hard-to-get wines – some of which are also very expensive. They should age for a while before you drink them. And you buy a few each year. Meanwhile your buying and drinking of humble everyday- and Saturday night- wines continues.
The result? Even in a modest cellar such as mine, you suddenly find large tracts of $ and space devoted to very valuable wines that seem to require some sense of occasion to drink. The daily drinkers turn over at a regular pace, while the trophies (and I use the word not in the showing-off sense) accumulate. I refuse to drink great wines at a stupidly young age. And, it must be said, my tastes are reasonably eclectic – my cellar is not exclusively Burgundy, or all cabernet & shiraz. So what do I find? Although Wynns black label Cabernet still reigns as the wine most numerous in my cellar, and Bin 389 is well represented too, the others in the top 8 are Mount Mary Quintet, Grosset’s Polish Hill, Wendouree’s Cabernet & Shiraz, St Henri & John Riddoch. Yikes! The absolute number of bottles is not large, but it occurs to me that I need to plan lots of special events between 2010 and 2020 to drink these!
I know, I know, forum members are keen to help. My question is, though, are you in the same situation?
Cheers,
Graeme
Cellar tendency toward 'Great Wines' over time?
Re: Cellar tendency toward 'Great Wines' over time?
GraemeG wrote:it occurs to me that I need to plan lots of special events between 2010 and 2020 to drink these!
I know, I know, forum members are keen to help. My question is, though, are you in the same situation?
Cheers,
Graeme
Yes - but I intend to hold many events - opening 15 year old Wendourees will be events in themselves and I reckon each time I open one, I will only need to tell a few people and they will be around very quickly!
Adair
I suspect that my cellar is headed this way. In ten years time I guess I'm aspiring to considering 1998 Kalimnas as a quaffer.
At the moment, quaffing reds in our house are vanishing faster than I can replace them on the sly, and pretty much any under $15 red, whether or not it can use cellaring, gets classified as a quaffer. $20+ wines tend to only get dragged out if we're having dinner with more people than just each other. When people bring wines to dinner, I often try to bring out something of equivalent value. Since we don't have many people bringing $40 wines to dinner, we don't often drag them out.
I'm not stuck with quite the number of the top end that you seem to keep, but I have a bunch of single $50+ bottles, maybe a couple of dozen, that are set aside for special occasions from 2006 onwards. Our most numerous wines (not counting $5 quaffers) are Mamre Brook Cab Sav (mostly 98), Taylors Shiraz (mostly 02), Crofters Cab Merlot, Kalimna, Bin 128, Rosemount Orange Label Chardonnay (mostly 01), Andrew Harris Reserve Chardonnay 01, Knappstein Riesling 01 - a likely bunch around the $20 mark.
Probably I need to arrange to do dinner with other wine enthusiasts so we can dispose of our surpluses. (Actually, I'm happy to cook).
Kieran
At the moment, quaffing reds in our house are vanishing faster than I can replace them on the sly, and pretty much any under $15 red, whether or not it can use cellaring, gets classified as a quaffer. $20+ wines tend to only get dragged out if we're having dinner with more people than just each other. When people bring wines to dinner, I often try to bring out something of equivalent value. Since we don't have many people bringing $40 wines to dinner, we don't often drag them out.
I'm not stuck with quite the number of the top end that you seem to keep, but I have a bunch of single $50+ bottles, maybe a couple of dozen, that are set aside for special occasions from 2006 onwards. Our most numerous wines (not counting $5 quaffers) are Mamre Brook Cab Sav (mostly 98), Taylors Shiraz (mostly 02), Crofters Cab Merlot, Kalimna, Bin 128, Rosemount Orange Label Chardonnay (mostly 01), Andrew Harris Reserve Chardonnay 01, Knappstein Riesling 01 - a likely bunch around the $20 mark.
Probably I need to arrange to do dinner with other wine enthusiasts so we can dispose of our surpluses. (Actually, I'm happy to cook).
Kieran
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bacchaebabe
- Posts: 1222
- Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2003 5:04 pm
- Location: Sydney
Interesting thought although I've always said I'm going to be drinking great wines in my forties. I'd say 75% or even more is full of icon wines that I think twice about opening and won't drink too young.
I often go in there and even with 100 dozen odd wines, can't find anything to drink. Infact just this morning I wanted a chardonnay for a wine tasting at work and had to come out with a 01 Lakes Folly when I was hoping to find a $20 chardonnay. Chardonnay is not well represented in my cellar but its a problem I often have, even for offlines where I'm willing to open something a bit more special.
The most represented wine would be either wynns black label, penfolds 389, Richmond Grove watervale rielsing or Petaluma riesling. There's lots of rieslings actually but there's also a lot of rockford basket press, mount mary, 707, even grange and a few other cults that I do wonder when I'm going to drink. In about ten years there's going to be a major panic to drink a lot of this stuff at its peak but I hope to have a few more of my friends better appreciating wine to be able to share it with them by that time.
I often go in there and even with 100 dozen odd wines, can't find anything to drink. Infact just this morning I wanted a chardonnay for a wine tasting at work and had to come out with a 01 Lakes Folly when I was hoping to find a $20 chardonnay. Chardonnay is not well represented in my cellar but its a problem I often have, even for offlines where I'm willing to open something a bit more special.
The most represented wine would be either wynns black label, penfolds 389, Richmond Grove watervale rielsing or Petaluma riesling. There's lots of rieslings actually but there's also a lot of rockford basket press, mount mary, 707, even grange and a few other cults that I do wonder when I'm going to drink. In about ten years there's going to be a major panic to drink a lot of this stuff at its peak but I hope to have a few more of my friends better appreciating wine to be able to share it with them by that time.
Cheers,
Kris
There's a fine wine between pleasure and pain
(Stolen from the graffiti in the ladies loos at Pegasus Bay winery)
Kris
There's a fine wine between pleasure and pain
(Stolen from the graffiti in the ladies loos at Pegasus Bay winery)
Graeme
We are all getting into the same position. Unless your partner is a fine wine drinker it can be a problem. I see another problem for me as my son has become very fond of quality wines.
Imagine the scenario
Father: I should buy another half dozen of the Blahblah 1998. The price is too good to pass up and we need that many more for regular tasting until they reach their drinking window.
Son: Yeah I agree, get another half dozen.
Father: Your mother is going to kill me if I bring home any more wine and then I wonÂ’t get to drink all of the wines I have been nurturing all these years.
Son: Maybe a dozen is the right number.
Graham
We are all getting into the same position. Unless your partner is a fine wine drinker it can be a problem. I see another problem for me as my son has become very fond of quality wines.
Imagine the scenario
Father: I should buy another half dozen of the Blahblah 1998. The price is too good to pass up and we need that many more for regular tasting until they reach their drinking window.
Son: Yeah I agree, get another half dozen.
Father: Your mother is going to kill me if I bring home any more wine and then I wonÂ’t get to drink all of the wines I have been nurturing all these years.
Son: Maybe a dozen is the right number.
Graham
Chardonnay: A drink you have when there is no RED wine, the beer hasn't arrived and the water may be polluted
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George Krashos
- Posts: 474
- Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2003 7:26 pm
This thread is absolutely spot on for me. I first got into wine in the 1990 vintage but being a poor Uni student bought a bottle here and a bottle there. Fool that I was, I thought a dozen scotch and cokes on a Saturday night (@ $3 each) was more important than buying 2 x 1990 Basket Press ... *sigh*
Then of course I studied interstate from 1995 through until 1997 and so I have a 'donut' cellar. A few eclectic 1990s and 1991s (never more than 3 of any one type), barely any 92-95, and then I rev up in 96 to date.
I too have been earmarking special bottles for special events. As I like reds with bottle age (and I usually only buy wines that can handle 5+ years in the dungeon) I'm at a crossroads at the moment. Too few good bottles for various social events at the moment.
As an example, this New Years our inlaws are coming from overseas - a big dinner for New Years Eve is planned. I'm planning to bring out a 92 Henschke Mt Edelstone (one of two in my cellar), a 91 Bin 389 (again, one of two) and possibly a 94 Rockford cabernet (of which I've only got 3 left and I'm loath to open just now ...).
Then again, from 2006 onward I'll have enough wine to satisfy the semi-special and special occasions - hopefully. But as the original poster noted, I've also found that my hand reaches for the bottle and then draws back while I think, "Naah, not a 'special' enough occasion ... I'll give 'em something else...".
I'm hoping that by 2010 I'll be cured of that affliction. Of course, the Wendouree will probably have to wait for even longer than that ...
-- George Krashos
Then of course I studied interstate from 1995 through until 1997 and so I have a 'donut' cellar. A few eclectic 1990s and 1991s (never more than 3 of any one type), barely any 92-95, and then I rev up in 96 to date.
I too have been earmarking special bottles for special events. As I like reds with bottle age (and I usually only buy wines that can handle 5+ years in the dungeon) I'm at a crossroads at the moment. Too few good bottles for various social events at the moment.
As an example, this New Years our inlaws are coming from overseas - a big dinner for New Years Eve is planned. I'm planning to bring out a 92 Henschke Mt Edelstone (one of two in my cellar), a 91 Bin 389 (again, one of two) and possibly a 94 Rockford cabernet (of which I've only got 3 left and I'm loath to open just now ...).
Then again, from 2006 onward I'll have enough wine to satisfy the semi-special and special occasions - hopefully. But as the original poster noted, I've also found that my hand reaches for the bottle and then draws back while I think, "Naah, not a 'special' enough occasion ... I'll give 'em something else...".
I'm hoping that by 2010 I'll be cured of that affliction. Of course, the Wendouree will probably have to wait for even longer than that ...
-- George Krashos
Graeme,
Great and relevant topic. The note about the mailing lists of hard to get wines rings true in my case to some extent.
I have numerous Jasper Hill, Wild Duck Creek and Giaconda bottles as well as many other fine wines that are easier to get such as Wynns Black Label, Baileys of Glenrowan and some Penfolds. Many of these will be more enjoyable with a further 5-10 years bottle age.
I also have a number of odds and sods that I have managed to accumulate over the past 3-4 years and will be looking at whittling down their numbers this coming year to make more room for some better quality everyday drinking wines. Wines I have been able to count on over the past few years.
My wife isn't a red fan (beginning to appreciate a very occasional pinot) but is a big fan of riesling as of recently. Hence, riesling has been doing quite well in our household over the last 18 months or so while the majority of red wines just sits back aging.
Maybe by the time it is at its peak, my wife's palate will have progressed to big reds OR my now 5 year old son will have been lucky enough to find an appreciation for fine wine much younger than his father did (and his father before him!).
Great and relevant topic. The note about the mailing lists of hard to get wines rings true in my case to some extent.
I have numerous Jasper Hill, Wild Duck Creek and Giaconda bottles as well as many other fine wines that are easier to get such as Wynns Black Label, Baileys of Glenrowan and some Penfolds. Many of these will be more enjoyable with a further 5-10 years bottle age.
I also have a number of odds and sods that I have managed to accumulate over the past 3-4 years and will be looking at whittling down their numbers this coming year to make more room for some better quality everyday drinking wines. Wines I have been able to count on over the past few years.
My wife isn't a red fan (beginning to appreciate a very occasional pinot) but is a big fan of riesling as of recently. Hence, riesling has been doing quite well in our household over the last 18 months or so while the majority of red wines just sits back aging.
Maybe by the time it is at its peak, my wife's palate will have progressed to big reds OR my now 5 year old son will have been lucky enough to find an appreciation for fine wine much younger than his father did (and his father before him!).
Ciao,
michaelw
You know it makes sense!
michaelw
You know it makes sense!
Once again I am reminded what a privilege, it is to have wife who is partner in crime when it comes to wine buying and red drinking. 
Yes we probably have slightly too many occassion wines but most of those go extremely well with a steak or roast dinner. I think that after great dinner parties sharing great wine with friends, the simple Friday night steak with a great bottle is probably one of the best ways to enjoy wine.
Yes we probably have slightly too many occassion wines but most of those go extremely well with a steak or roast dinner. I think that after great dinner parties sharing great wine with friends, the simple Friday night steak with a great bottle is probably one of the best ways to enjoy wine.
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Aussie Johns
I have become a lot more selective in choice of wine purchase. These days, it is far more likely that I will spend $2000 on one case of wine than buy four cases for $500 each. My overall spend hasn't changed much, but I am buying far less quantity.
Fortunately, I picked up a huge amount of quaffing wine between 1988-1998 at absurdly low prices. These are all still drinking beautifully, and provide me with almost "free" everyday drinking. The best of these have been:
1986 Penfolds Bin 28- $94/case (bought 10 cases of this)
1988-1998 Leasingham Bin 61- from $96 to $155/case
1994-1998 Lehmann Shiraz- average $150 case.
1990-1998 Mitchelton Blackwood Park Riesling average $145/case
1991 Leonay riesling- $115/case (10 cases- just entering its prime)
Used to buy P. de Marcilly Bourgogne for $50/case back in the 80's- greatest wine value I have ever had.
The amount of quaffers I have built up now allows me to be very selective. I won't buy wine I don't think will comfortably age 20+ years.
Fortunately, I picked up a huge amount of quaffing wine between 1988-1998 at absurdly low prices. These are all still drinking beautifully, and provide me with almost "free" everyday drinking. The best of these have been:
1986 Penfolds Bin 28- $94/case (bought 10 cases of this)
1988-1998 Leasingham Bin 61- from $96 to $155/case
1994-1998 Lehmann Shiraz- average $150 case.
1990-1998 Mitchelton Blackwood Park Riesling average $145/case
1991 Leonay riesling- $115/case (10 cases- just entering its prime)
Used to buy P. de Marcilly Bourgogne for $50/case back in the 80's- greatest wine value I have ever had.
The amount of quaffers I have built up now allows me to be very selective. I won't buy wine I don't think will comfortably age 20+ years.
Good topic Graeme. I guess that I am lucky that I have been cellaring wine for over 30 years so its fairly stable now. There are a lot of the special occasion wines you mention but there are also lots of good everyday wines too. Most of the every day drops i am now consuming are from 94-96 and include Elderton, Seven Hills, Bowen, St Hugo, Keyneton etc - wines that are in the (at todays cost) $20-30 bracket.
The more expensive ones (from $30-50) are consumed when I feel like a good bottle, the likes of say Classic Clare, Bin 0, Petaluma, St Henri etc.
The top wines that normally cost over $50 (or are hard to get) are generally kept to share with friends on special occasions.
The more expensive ones (from $30-50) are consumed when I feel like a good bottle, the likes of say Classic Clare, Bin 0, Petaluma, St Henri etc.
The top wines that normally cost over $50 (or are hard to get) are generally kept to share with friends on special occasions.
After been given a bottle of 1988 limestone ridge for a successful international conference I help organised, I have never looked back since.
Like is too short to drink average wine and Front start I have always wanted to drink good wine. I have only been collecting for about 3 years and have been fortunately enough to accquire very good wine both Australian and French.
My girlfriend is allergic to bad wine, but no problems with top wine (funny huh?). If she drinks bad (Not well made) wine she get rashes everywhere. She is fine if I open top line Brodeaux and top line Australian wines.
I don't like drinking great wine before it is readyto drink, so I have been buying aged wine from auction as the day to day drinking wine.
Fortunitely, all my close friends are into wines and all have good collections so the burden of opening great wines is shared.
Cheers
Rob
Like is too short to drink average wine and Front start I have always wanted to drink good wine. I have only been collecting for about 3 years and have been fortunately enough to accquire very good wine both Australian and French.
My girlfriend is allergic to bad wine, but no problems with top wine (funny huh?). If she drinks bad (Not well made) wine she get rashes everywhere. She is fine if I open top line Brodeaux and top line Australian wines.
I don't like drinking great wine before it is readyto drink, so I have been buying aged wine from auction as the day to day drinking wine.
Fortunitely, all my close friends are into wines and all have good collections so the burden of opening great wines is shared.
Cheers
Rob
Aussie Johns wrote: I won't buy wine I don't think will comfortably age 20+ years.
Spot on Aussie Johns. I am the same. If I can't put the wine away for at least 10+ easily, then I won't buy it.
I have about 80% Australian and 20% French at the moment, but I am trying to get to about 40% Australian and 60% French by the end of the first decade in 2000.
This is such a relevant nightmare for me. Even though I haven't been collecting the long-term wines for long (and this could be half the problem) I always find that I want to save the good bottles for those who appreciate it but can't bring myself to drink the dross that sits expectantly at the top of the shelf waiting to be flung in the direciton of a careless barbeque. This leads to the usual dilemna, and concludes in the lay-downs being drunk pre-term. 
It also is exacerbated by the fact that the more good wine I drink the less I can fork out the money for the under twenty bottle, the under twenty-five bottle, the under thirty........ ad infinitum (I suspect).
regards,
It also is exacerbated by the fact that the more good wine I drink the less I can fork out the money for the under twenty bottle, the under twenty-five bottle, the under thirty........ ad infinitum (I suspect).
regards,
simm.
"I ain't drunk! I' still drinkin' !!"
"I ain't drunk! I' still drinkin' !!"
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Dietmar
Aussie Johns wrote: I won't buy wine I don't think will comfortably age 20+ years.
Ditto - I have a cellar of over 5,000 bottles collected over 30 years and have calculated that that I can spend every day in 2004 drinking a 1st or 2nd growth Bordeaux from 1982, which are now drinking superbly. But the question remains would i want to do this?
The fact remains that for me I have too many brilliant wines to drink everyday and for this reason never buy wines that won't go at least a decade so I usually only buy small now (3-6 bottles and only the top marque).
As it turns out I can never catch up so half of each wine usually goes to auction. For some this might seem a wonderful thing, but to have a great wine every single night does get tiring - I wish I could could drink cheapies but i too am fortnuate I have such a vast array of riches for everyday drinking! Life IS too short to drink anything else!
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PaulSheldon
- Posts: 87
- Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2003 1:32 pm
- Location: Perth
I am at the opposite end of the scale with only around 200 bottles in my cellar and certainly no 1st or 2nd growth Bordeaux. Having said that, I am finding the same thing with my cellar starting to polarise a bit. At one end I am constantly on the hunt for good quaffers such as the Bastion, Bin 61 and the like. At the other end I am picking up more of the one or two bottles of something decent that will age well, rather than the mid-range stuff. This has started to include the likes of Jack Mann, Mosswood Cabernet, John Riddoch, Seppelt St Peters as well as a few slightly cheaper favourites like Wynns Black Label, Voyager Shiraz and the Howard Park regionals.
I don't seem to have a problem finding the occasion to drink these though. With Auswine offlines and a regular wine lunch group of friends I can see plenty of opportunity to drink some good aged wine with friends and family that can appreciate it. Of course when you are trying to build up a cellar, this can be a double-edged sword. My solution is to use a professional cellar facility for my good stuff, meaning I have to plan a couple of days ahead to pull them out for an "occasion".
I don't seem to have a problem finding the occasion to drink these though. With Auswine offlines and a regular wine lunch group of friends I can see plenty of opportunity to drink some good aged wine with friends and family that can appreciate it. Of course when you are trying to build up a cellar, this can be a double-edged sword. My solution is to use a professional cellar facility for my good stuff, meaning I have to plan a couple of days ahead to pull them out for an "occasion".
Paul