98 Grange - will Southcorp ever come clean?

707 · Post by **707** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 8:36 am

Been watching with interest the auction price for 98 Grange fall by $150 in the past month or so. We now know this is because quite significant amounts have been reimported from overseas markets.

I understand Southcorps line to Aust retailers (and therefore consumers) to explain the pathetic allocations they received was that there was substantially less produced in 98 in order to rachet up the quality.

We all know 98 produced a big crop of great fruit so that argument couldn't hold water and given the amounts now flooding back to Aust I think that proves they were less than honest with the truth.

I still can't believe the number and magnitude of the blunders made by Southcorp and nothing they do in the immediate future will have me putting any of my wine budget their way. Too many other excellent honest people's product to buy.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 10:48 am

I think you're being a bit harsh here. Stock is being re-imported to Australia from overseas because many markets (mainly Europe) are simply not as enthused about 98 Grange as we (and Americans) are.

The reason the price has fallen $150 at auction over the past few months is because people were silly with the amounts they were willing to spend to get 98 Grange. It's a good wine, but even $500 is generous for a young wine. Don't forget that retailers who sold it for $350 were still making a very good mark-up. For $500 that's a very big profit. Paying up to $700 for it is just crazy, especially considering what you would pay for 91, 90, 86 or 83 Grange at auction.

Southcorp have many problems still, but I can't see that they've been dishonest or misleading about 98 Grange production or allocations.

Stewart Plant · Post by **Stewart Plant** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 10:49 am

Sorry - forgot to log in.

markg · Post by **markg** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 11:35 am

Anonymous wrote:The reason the price has fallen $150 at auction over the past few months is because people were silly with the amounts they were willing to spend to get 98 Grange. It's a good wine, but even $500 is generous for a young wine. Don't forget that retailers who sold it for $350 were still making a very good mark-up. For $500 that's a very big profit. Paying up to $700 for it is just crazy, especially considering what you would pay for 91, 90, 86 or 83 Grange at auction.

Another point of interest regarding the price fluctuation is that many a Grange "collector" will apply a discount to the perceived price of the 98 Granges that have been re-imported as they are wary of any wine that has been shipped halfway round the world, sat in a bonded customs house and then re-shipped back to Australia. I wonder what the average travel time of those wayward Grange is since early this year ?

PaulV · Post by **PaulV** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 12:18 pm

Yep and during the hottest European summer in 100 years!!

JamieBahrain · Post by **JamieBahrain** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 8:50 pm

I'm JamieHongKong now so to celebrate after a case of 98 Grange.

Has the price come down significantly at home or should I liberate some 98 Grange from England/Europe?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Nov 27, 2003 2:01 am

JamieBahrain wrote:I'm JamieHongKong now so to celebrate after a case of 98 Grange.

Has the price come down significantly at home or should I liberate some 98 Grange from England/Europe?

good on you jamie, welcome to HKSARS....oops you know what i mean.

Eddie

Gavin Trott · Post by **Gavin Trott** » Thu Nov 27, 2003 9:50 am

Anonymous wrote:good on you jamie, welcome to HKSARS....oops you know what i mean.

Eddie

Please don't say that Eddie, bringing the family to Hong Kong in April, no SARS I hope!

jacques · Post by **jacques** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 5:35 am

Gavin Trott wrote:
Anonymous wrote:good on you jamie, welcome to HKSARS....oops you know what i mean.

Eddie

Please don't say that Eddie, bringing the family to Hong Kong in April, no SARS I hope!

Not too worry, no SARS here at the moment, just some very polluted air and flu around.
Hope you will stay in the south side of the Island, the air there should be much better.

SueNZ · Post by **SueNZ** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 6:19 am

markg wrote:Another point of interest regarding the price fluctuation is that many a Grange "collector" will apply a discount to the perceived price of the 98 Granges that have been re-imported as they are wary of any wine that has been shipped halfway round the world, sat in a bonded customs house and then re-shipped back to Australia. I wonder what the average travel time of those wayward Grange is since early this year ?

Mark, how, in ten years time, is one going to know it has been shipped halfway round the world and back?

Adam · Post by **Adam** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 8:03 am

Sue,

I hear the labelling is slightly different.

GraemeG · Post by **GraemeG** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 8:33 am

Yes, I think sublte label changes will be the give-away. It seems that Southcorp is repatriating a fair bit of stock from the UK and flogging it via Langtons. I bought one of the 6-packs of old-packaging DP63 Seppelt Muscat 375ml and found the official labels were all set-up for the UK market. They'd been over-labelled with little 375mkl stickers, and I think something about 'standard drinks' as per Australian labelling requirements. Large amounts of this stock were put through Langtons in both Sydney & Melbourne.

There was also a large consignment of 97 Buring Leonays a couple of months ago, and I see vast quantities of Bin 389 going in the current auction. Surely that can't be Southcorp stock as well...

cheers,
Graeme

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 9:08 am

I think more is to the point that with SRP's financial woes they produced buckets of the stuff. No one knows how many bottles they produced because of their unique alpha numeric "licence plate" numbering system.
To disguise this they have scattered it throughout the world so as to make it difficult for forums such as these to meaningfully discuss the number of bottles produced.

The reason for doing this is obviously to avoid devaluing their icons status. Not sure if they succeeded though.

markg · Post by **markg** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 10:19 am

SueNZ wrote:
markg wrote:Another point of interest regarding the price fluctuation is that many a Grange "collector" will apply a discount to the perceived price of the 98 Granges that have been re-imported as they are wary of any wine that has been shipped halfway round the world, sat in a bonded customs house and then re-shipped back to Australia. I wonder what the average travel time of those wayward Grange is since early this year ?

Mark, how, in ten years time, is one going to know it has been shipped halfway round the world and back?

The labelling is different. There is also some concern expressed by some about storage and handling conditons during its long journey. There are too many unknowns for some potential buyers and they refuse to accept the 1998 re-imported granges over the ones that never left the country.

simm · Post by **simm** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 10:37 pm

markg wrote:
SueNZ wrote:
markg wrote:Another point of interest regarding the price fluctuation is that many a Grange "collector" will apply a discount to the perceived price of the 98 Granges that have been re-imported as they are wary of any wine that has been shipped halfway round the world, sat in a bonded customs house and then re-shipped back to Australia. I wonder what the average travel time of those wayward Grange is since early this year ?

Mark, how, in ten years time, is one going to know it has been shipped halfway round the world and back?

The labelling is different. There is also some concern expressed by some about storage and handling conditons during its long journey. There are too many unknowns for some potential buyers and they refuse to accept the 1998 re-imported granges over the ones that never left the country.

So If I find one over here and its price makes it worth it, considering the exchange rate, would it still be worth bringing one back in my personal luggage? Not likely to be doing it but...

sincerely,