The Auswine Forum

I joined this forum for some advice on red wine.

I generally prefer red wine but it is so hard (for me) to find a really nice red wine which explodes in your mouth with full, deep flavour. You know when you find it instantly but finding them is almost like hunting for the holy grail.

It doesn't seem to be related to cost either. Today I tried some Penfolds from 10 to $50 (Bin 389 etc etc I think) but none of them did anything for me.

Until I discovered my little $7 gem a $15 Barwang Shiraz was my favourite .

However two weeks ago we had a trip to the Hunter Valley and the last stop we made was Draytons. As it was only $7a bottle I brought a case of 2002 Oakey Creek Shiraz Cabernet. What the hell I thought, and didn't even try tasting it. Drayton wines are always OK if not particularly amazing but are tremendous value (in my opinion). I also like the unpretentiousness of their winery compared to the highly pretentious nearby wineries like Tempus Two and others. It was also very sad about the tragic explosion and they were set up in a temporary cellar door .


Well last night I tried a bottle and quite honestly it is incredible. I was expecting it to be so so but was quite taken aback. It has that elusive taste explosion I have been searching for. I asked my wife her opinion and she too was amazed.

Has it anything to do with being 2002- are older reds better and was 2002 a good vintage? Do we have a fluke bottle I hope the others tastes as good.

I just don't understand red wine as how come I like this so much but the $50 bottles do nothing for me???

Sorry if this forum isn't appropriate but this Draytons really is amazing and I wonder if anyone else can concur with me? Perhaps my pallet just isn't up to it. I don't know.

Any advice greatly appreciated- Anyone have any good red suggestions for under $20. I can't afford Grange but I tend to think I would be dissapointed!

Personally, I hardly ever see a direct correlation evident between wine quality (i.e. truth to varietal, terroir and other likely characteristics and even individuality) and price. Especially not in Australia when compared to other nations (Italy, Sth Africa).

I feel some winemakers don't really understand the true value of their product, from the eyes of the consumer. For example: I have some excellent wines for less than $14. However, a winery next to that same producer in the same region, with a similar educational/experiential background is producing a wine I consider of poorer quality and is charging double the price.

I recently attended the NZ Wine in a Glass trade show in Brisbane and was astounded to try a pinot noir for $65/btl (wholesale LUC!!) and it was no better than the $24 pinots purchased from Mornington Peninsula and even Coal River in TAS.

It's difficult to justify any general rule, but if you like a certain wine regardless of its price point, buy more of it and cellar it away for a bit! Personally, I don't find the Barwang unique, not for such a cool micro-climate shiraz, anyway.

Many thanks for the reply.

I think you are right if you enjoy it buy more of it!

If any one has any good tips for red wines 10-$20 (or even less) it would be appreciated. I discovered Barwang by accident and the two bottles Iv'e had have been great. But I tell you this little $7 bottle of Draytons oakey creek (a budget wine producers BUDGET wine) is astounding.

I do fully admit that may be I don't really know how to taste/appreciate wine properly.

While we were tasting these 40-$50 Penfolds one guy said it should be OK in 5 years-how can he tell that?

Thanks again

manofkent, welcome to the forum and you are a very lucky person to find wines you love at that price.

I sort of agree with Daniel that the price/quality correlation can be a bit tenuous, but after roughly weekly single blind tastings for approx 30 years (plus fortnightly ones for about 14 years and monthly tastings for over 20 years) I have to report that in general more expensive wines are preferred by the people I taste and drink wine with.

Sure there are many times when the most expensive wine wasn't ranked top or was even ranked last behind much cheaper wines, but as a general rule the more expensive wines rank above the cheaper wines.

There are enough smart people with "good" palates (whatever that means) buying the more expensive wines to indicate that many of them are good wines and worth the money to many people. And enough expensive wines bagged on forums like this to know when there is a dud vintage or a wine is priced at more than it is worth.

Certainly it is exciting to find a producer (usually a newish winery or new label from an established winery) that is making very good wines and pricing them to break into the market and establish a reputation, rather than pricing them the same as an established competitor and hoping people will think they are as good.

This is shaping up as the year of the big price rises for wine after a few years of restraint/constraint due to the glut, there will still be plenty of good buys and bargains though, it will just be a little harder to find them.

Each person seems to have a "sweet spot" on the QPR curve above which an increase in price isn't seen as being worth the extra money. This is often budget-driven as well as taste-driven. For me it's currently around $50, having increased from $20, to $30 and $40 previously over the last 20 years or so. A wine really has to be something special to make me pay more than $50pb and only about 12% (by number of bottles) of my cellar was bought at above $50pb.

I agree that red wine is a better drink. I find that usually all whites I try taste OK and most reds I try taste so so. But when you find that elusive red it puts all the OK whites into the shade and makes drinking all the so reds worth it.

Are there any similar wines to Barwamg (taste and price ) around- I usually go into teh bottle shop blind and are tempted by the gold medals but they usually dissapoint!

Whilst at the Hunter Valley we went to Coopers wines (Lovedale road part) and brought some Coopers Coonwarra 2005 Cab Sav $22 pb) and it was rather nice.

To answer your question properly (since neither of us really did the first time!) I would try Warrenmang winery (similar name, funny eh?!) and also Logan wines in Orange, NSW. That's for shiraz, shiraz cab and shiraz viognier blends.

The other option would be to hit up Heathecote winery for their shiraz.. not the premium Curagee, the other one.. erm, what they called that! It was very good and inexepensive, if memory serves.

Thanks- I'll check out those names and take a bottle or two home with me.

Is there a section on this site on recommended wines at various price points?

Cheers manofkent

Haven't had any Draytons wines for years but do recall a cab/merl that I enjoyed in the early 90s. There are so many wines available and I agree with Brian that generally the more expensive wines are better - but my cap is around $20-$30(max) for reds, $15-$20 for whites. Glad I'm not a bubbly wine drinker, just doesn't do much for me.

Cheers

daz

Daniel Jess wrote:To answer your question properly (since neither of us really did the first time!) I would try Warrenmang winery (similar name, funny eh?!) and also Logan wines in Orange, NSW. That's for shiraz, shiraz cab and shiraz viognier blends.

The other option would be to hit up Heathecote winery for their shiraz.. not the premium Curagee, the other one.. erm, what they called that! It was very good and inexepensive, if memory serves.

Mail Coach? 2006 is just out and it's good.

manofkent wrote:Thanks- I'll check out those names and take a bottle or two home with me.

Is there a section on this site on recommended wines at various price points?

Cheers manofkent

Not as such, have you checked out the e-tail site of the forum owner? Click on the logo at the top left of the page.

You can also have a look at my site if you haven't seen it, but I don't often focus on wines under about $20, unfortunately most of those don't seem to suit my personal palate, although there are exceptions of course.

Red Bigot wrote:
Mail Coach? 2006 is just out and it's good.

Indeed! That was it. I tried it merely two weeks ago, had the winemaker in the restaurant, lovely NZ lass. I ended up using the Curagee, but the '06 MCoach is def. a good blend!

I think it was the Mail Coach 03(?) I tried last year - it was ok but may have been heat affected, not much fruit. But I have become somewhat of a red wine fruit fiend over the last year or so, particularly from the Barossa a la RPJ, not that I take any notice of his preferences.

Cheers

daz

Daryl Douglas wrote:I think it was the Mail Coach 03(?) I tried last year - it was ok but may have been heat affected, not much fruit.

daz

I think the Mail Coach 03 was just a bit of a dud vintage for them, I wasn't impressed with the ones I tried either.

Where did the user go that started this thread?

Matthew Moate wrote:Where did the user go that started this thread?

Gone in the (sometimes indiscriminate) Gavin Purge.

Sounds awful...

Yar, it can be. I was flushed twice, but I'm clean now. lol

Just noticed that I've been posting on this (revamped/new) site for only a few weeks less than Brian but there's no chance of a challenge to his and Ric's competition (as was - my estimate was way early) for the highest number of posts by each of them. I guess established legitimacy helps when water-boarding threatens.

Oh, yeah, and just being genuinely interested in wine..............expressing one's own impressions, no dissing of others' opinions except for very occasionally taking the piss to frequent posters to add entertainment and keep it all easygoing, fun without rancour. All good!

And thanks Brian, for affirming my impression of the Mail Coach 03.

daz