The Auswine Forum

Ok, I tried reading and, more painfully, understanding this discussion, but my brain tired.

My simple analysis is that wine is meant to be 'nice'. I see a difference between 'nice' and 'good'. Good refers to a subjective or objective measure (out of 20 or 100 points or 5 stars or whatever) whereas 'nice' relates to someone's enjoyment. I would venture that most people agree that instant coffee, takeaway food, mass produced chocolate and very cheap wine is not 'good'. However, many, many, many people may find them nice. Whether it is their first or one thousandth unit of consumption.

Another analogy: blue-vein cheese may be better than Kroon slices, but I will find the latter 'nicer' and the former 'nasty'. This assessment may also never change.

Whether the newcomer finds any of it 'nice' will depend on their palates and other idiosyncrasies.

I don't see it any more complicated as that.

reschsmooth? As in resch's beer?

I'll dip my toe in once more in answer to your post.

It is 'more complicated than that' because you didn't address the question. You've addressed the title. Which I (I'm the guy posted this) immediately qualified.

I've been over and over this but never could seem to get it across. Here we go:

What I mean is should the newcomer expect to have trouble finding a palatable wine or expect to find many, almost immediately?

To put it another way: is wine drinking a sort of 'acquired taste' ?

That's what I asked.

You'll note the subjectivity of the question. 'Palatable' obviously means palatable to the newcomer's palate. It is his/her subjective judgement.

You'll note my question says nothing about 'good' or 'bad'.

You'll note it says nothing about me. Or you. It is impersonal.

You'll note is does not specify some subset of humanity - 'the rich' or 'the poor', the 'educated' or 'the uneducated', nothing. It is perfectly general.

It does not specify the subset: 'Australian'. And that's another of my errors. I did mean, really, at bottom, though I'm interested in the larger, world wide answer, I did mean mainly : 'Australian'. But, yes, no one could have known that.

Just thought I'd steer you right old mate, you sounded a tad fatigued there, perhaps needed a shot of Resch's DA, or a friendly face across the table as we reef the cork out of a bottle of..... ?

abrogard wrote:reschsmooth? As in resch's beer?

More than that.

I'll dip my toe in once more in answer to your post.

It is 'more complicated than that' because you didn't address the question. You've addressed the title. Which I (I'm the guy posted this) immediately qualified.

Actually, if you re-read my post, you will find I did answer your question, but, perhaps not as clearly as you require.

I've been over and over this but never could seem to get it across. Here we go:

What I mean is should the newcomer expect to have trouble finding a palatable wine or expect to find many, almost immediately?

To put it another way: is wine drinking a sort of 'acquired taste' ?

[/quote]

To answer your questions as concisely as possible: no, yes, no. But, on the last question, your terminology is lacking. "Wine drinking" is the consumption of wine, is it not? Can a novice find a bottle of wine and find it nice? Of course. Can they fi'nd a bottle of wine and find it "nasty" [excluding faulty wine]? Of course. But that is not because the wine is 'nasty', but because the person found it so. Two very different things.

Furthermore, the fact that wine is made to be consumed and enjoyed suggests that the average adult would find wine nice.

Reschsmooth,

Brief, concise and to the point. Do you write briefs for a living?

Mahmoud Ali wrote:Reschsmooth,

Brief, concise and to the point. Do you write briefs for a living?

Mahmoud, not sure if your question was in jest or not, but I used to write in a very elongated fashion. I realized that my audience found this diminished the quality and impact of the material. In 2011, I find myself teaching my staff to write in a concise fashion, and to avoid not only repetition but saying the same thing over and over

Edited.
Yes, you did answer the question fully. Before the edit I claimed you hadn't. Sorry. Didn't read it correctly - too, too hurried, I was.

But your answers are not supported by the views expressed in the posts in this thread.

You find three questions here:

What I mean is should the newcomer expect to have trouble finding a palatable wine or expect to find many, almost immediately?

To put it another way: is wine drinking a sort of 'acquired taste' ?

And you give these answers:

1. The newcomer shouldn't have trouble finding a palatable wine
2. They should find many almost immediately
3. Wine drinking is not an acquired taste.

Which essentially means you contend the opposite to what I claim to have found - from the posts in this thread.

So I will point out to you:

It has been repeatedly claimed that newcomers will find unpalatable wine often because of one or more of these factors (as a for instance):

. they buy cheap wine
. they buy expensive wine
. they don't have developed palates

None of which are claims of mine.

But i do see the sense in them. 'cheap and nasty' is a byword, a common phrase in our language.
'expensive' is often a con and othertimes is loftily touted as only palatable to the 'educated palate'.

And there's another simple factor - akin to shopping for clothes - the wine store may simply have nothing you like.

God may have ordained you to be a lover of a certain wine and no other, or few other. And none of your local wine shops, being what they tend to be, stock this wine. Hence you won't find what you love.

The simple truth is so self evident I wonder what it is prompts you and others to claim the contrary. What makes you fly in face of the evidence so much? Why is it getting up your nose?

And the supporters of this contention that flies in the face of the evidence often tend towards personalising their posts, adding some apparently snide or suspect irrelevant comment, or adjective or such.... Why? What is it with you?

And ill considered thoughts such as:

Furthermore, the fact that wine is made to be consumed and enjoyed suggests that the average adult would find wine nice.

This means nothing. Your obvious ability to think, write, reason is so impressive it prompts someone to suspect you to be a judge or barrister or something (we'll assume here that judges and barristers can think, write, reason) - so why would you say such a thing?

Everything is made to be enjoyed. What do you know that is not so made?

Clothes are made to be enjoyed. Our clothing store analogy.

But the question is not: "Would the average adult find wine nice?" That's not what was asked. That question begs the question of 'which wine' and even 'when' or even 'where' or even 'how often' or even 'in what circumstances'.

The questions were well known to you - you gave your answers quickly enough - why throw this red herring in?

Motor bikes are made to be enjoyed. Does the average adult find motor bikes nice?

The blindingly obvious point is that MANY wines are made to be enjoyed and MANY people have MANY differing tastes and there may be no correspondence at any one time and location between the available wines and the pleasurable taste requirements of the people in that location.

I hope to God you're not a judge or a barrister, but you probably are...

Or do you think that all people enjoy all wines?

Ah. Is that it?

Well you're wrong.

Reschsmooth,

No, it wasn't in jest. I really thought that your initial post framed the issue very well, delineating the difference between 'nice', 'good', and 'bad', as well as it's relationship to personal preferences, people's likes and dislikes. Your analogies were spot on, especially the one about the cheese.

Cheers...................Mahmoud.

Is there anywhere I can go to reclaim the 30 minutes of my life spent painfully trawling through much of this nonsense?

Sorry for bumping this back to the top of the board AGAIN!

This thread has caused me to do something I never ever dreamt I do.

I'm going to quote myself.

On May 13th I said:

"This thread is starting to read like a piece of performance art.

Freaky!"

An two weeks, or 30 mins of PC79's life, has quietly disappeared under the bridge.

Ahhhhh......

Craig(NZ) wrote:People

I think this thread is just a case of too much thinking and not enough drinking!

I agree!